What to Learn First When Product-Market Fit Is Unclear
Start with whichever answers your biggest unknown fastest. If repeat use or payment is concentrated in a group, study those users first. If usage is tiny or scattered, pick one market segment and run a real use-or-payment test. If it is mixed, run both for two weeks and follow what people do, not what they say.
16 min · 3 chapters · 11 sources
Chapter 1
Start With the People Who Stayed
What they said
- 01
A SaaS team discovered through interviews with end users that customers valued one report, not the CRM workflow required to produce it, so they extracted the report feature into a simpler self-service product.
Jonathan Markwell · Empathy Deployed: Customer Interview Examples · 39:14 - 02
Noah Greenberg reported using roughly 50 customer conversations per month to triangulate product, pricing, packaging, and positioning during the first years of finding product-market fit.
Noah Greenberg · A Product Market Fit Show | Startup Podcast for Founders · 0:00 - 03
Shruti Kapoor's team found that early customers from their network were useful co-building partners, but their actual product usage differed from what the team expected.
Shruti Kapoor · The SaaS Podcast - Real Lessons on Growing Profitable SaaS · 10:43 - 04
Teams should define an active user using the product’s main user action rather than broad events such as logins, app opens, or page views.
Olga Berezovsky · Lenny's Newsletter - 05
Before building PandaDoc, Mikita Mikado sold designs to people who had used the prior product or had considered it but not bought it.
Mikita Mikado · How to Win podcast with Peep Laja - 06
People who build spreadsheets or Google Docs to solve a problem may be signaling that the problem is recurring and painful.
Arvid Kahl · The Bootstrapped Founder - 07
Atrium created substantial customer contact through partnerships and investor channels but still failed because churn was very high and the product did not provide enough utility.
Justin Kan · How to Win podcast with Peep Laja · 6:08 - 08
A product that was initially treated as desktop productivity software failed to achieve meaningful usage despite some purchases.
April Dunford · The Product Experience: a Mind the Product podcast · 5:04
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Sources (11)
Empathy Deployed: Customer Interview Examples
Jonathan Markwell on Customer Interviews9 Dec 2021 · from 39:14
Jonathan Markwell. Customer interview practitioner featured on a podcast about improving interviews and learning from customer feedback.
A Product Market Fit Show | Startup Podcast for Founders
He bootstrapped to $4M ARR in 2 years. Here's his LinkedIn playbook you can't ignore. | Noah Greenberg, Founder of Stacker3 Apr 2025 · from 0:00
Noah Greenberg. Founder of Stacker who grew a content-distribution product through LinkedIn and customer conversations about pricing and buying.
Pablo Srugo. Startup podcast host covering how founders find product-market fit and grow early businesses.
The SaaS Podcast - Real Lessons on Growing Profitable SaaS
SaaS Lead Generation: 40 Failed Meetings to 90% Inbound2 Feb 2023 · from 10:43
Shruti Kapoor. SaaS founder featured on The SaaS Podcast for turning failed sales meetings into strong inbound growth.
Lenny's Newsletter
How to measure cohort retention30 Aug 2022
Olga Berezovsky
Brian Balfour. Growth leader known for explaining the difference between customers who pay and users who use a product.
How to Win podcast with Peep Laja
Feedback loops and free product offerings with PandaDoc's Mikita Mikado31 Oct 2022
Mikita Mikado. CEO of PandaDoc, known for using customer feedback to guide product changes and growth.
The Bootstrapped Founder
155: Problem Discovery for Calm SaaS Businesses23 Sept 2022
Arvid Kahl. Bootstrapped founder and host of The Bootstrapped Founder; shares lessons on building audiences and software businesses.
How to Win podcast with Peep Laja
How Privy's Ben Jabbawy succeeded by focusing on a narrow niche1 Nov 2021 · from 6:08
Justin Kan. Podcast guest discussing customer retention and the need to deliver lasting product utility.
The Product Experience: a Mind the Product podcast
How to position your product for a future nobody can predict - April Dunford (Author of Obviously Awesome)2 Sept 2026 · from 5:04
April Dunford. Positioning consultant and author of Obviously Awesome and Sales Pitch; helps companies explain their value clearly.
The SaaS Podcast - Real Lessons on Growing Profitable SaaS
Finding Product-Market Fit: Two Pivots Then $10M ARR8 Apr 2020 · from 17:40
Sandy Lin
Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth
Leveraging growth advisors, hiring well, mastering SEO, and honing your craft | Luc Levesque (Shopify, Meta, TripAdvisor)15 Jun 2023 · from 18:47
Luc Levesque. Chief Growth Officer at Shopify and former TripAdvisor executive; advises companies on growth and product strategy.